Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Is a DST Spinoff brewing?
There seems to be a ground swell of disgruntled scrappers that are tired of the constant CT pimping and overzealous promoting of the latest trends at DST. If a new board were created what would attract you to post there? How could the owner keep the pimping under control? What forums would you suggest? Would the "average scrapper" participate? Ideas for generating site revenue? Can you generate revenue without selling ads and having sponsors?
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45 comments:
Saw that you posted your link to this blog over at the obits.
As you obviously already read over at The Darkside Blog (where this topic of a new community initiated) there already is someone who is starting a new community for scrappers and I for one CANT WAIT.
This person claimed they would only post updates at The Darkside and last I checked they were asking for feedback on what people want. I want to provide as much feedback as I can and I would suggest everyone else to do the same. We should all work together towards this common goal.
Sasha and Patricia appear to be opening up their blog after dealing with the barrage of annoying posts by Lippy and friends.
So there should be something new very soon!!
I am not going to post at the Darkside. They are openly tracking IP's and "shouting" out to people based on IP's. I want to post anonymous. Comments are turned off there anyway, hard to have a conversation with all of the pirate trash talking.
They were shouting out to the people that were causing problems. I too visit the darkside and will continue to do so. The only people that need to worry about being tracked are the people who partake in wrongdoings.
This conversation actually started last week at the DigiGoss blog when Gabs was on her pimp fest, and Shannon started promoting a $350.00 whore fee.
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As you obviously already read over at The Darkside Blog (where this topic of a new community initiated) >>>>
Thing is, it's expensive to have a forum, so where will the money come from?
It's TRULY not expensive to run a forum as much as it is time consuming. I'm the person who's building a new community and announced it over at The Darkside.
As more suggestions pour in over at The Darkside more information will be posted about the new community. I wanted to keep it in once place and out of all the smack blogs i've come across I prefer that one, so i'm keeping it there. I also know Sasha and consider her a friend.
To the poster who takes issue with the tracking of ip's I can tell you that it was done with the sole intention of ridding themselves of those annoying posters. They obviously have not posted and wont post information about the regular visitors/posters. The more you get to know them, the more you will probably agree with me that what they are doing is with their best intentions.
I hope you all will choose to voice your suggestions. I'll look forward to reading them.
I'm going to assume that the people posting here toasting the dark side are the owners of the dark side and their henchman trying to play as if they are the NEW, IT smack blog.
I personally, wouldn't want to be a part of ANY community that started out on that blog. Period. A bunch of trashy women from what I see.
Read the owners' posts over there, and obviously all the ones they have posted on the smack blogs trying to make themselves look like the best thing around.
Would you really want to be associated with people like that????
Now, let's count how many anonymous posts come right after this one tooting the dark side and all it's fabulousness. Then everyone say hi to it's owners trying desperately to make themselves known.
ok, I about the dark side.
I'll also say that I am the one who posted here at the HOF about tinkering around.
It looks like free forum hosting is available and doable. I'm still trying to work out the logistics of keeping one sub-forum free of any and all advertising,promoting, pimping, etc. I'm open to ideas and suggestions on that. My two consideration so far have been trying to set up a way for members to register in only one category (ex. designer, scrapper, ct) or just heavily moderating one forum and deleting any pimping, etc.
They both have some disadvantages and/or limitations, so like I said, I'm open to suggestions.
I'm also interested in the questions that this blog owner asked here in this entry.
I'm learning about the admin of forums as I go basically. And as I previously posted, with a current full-time+ job, I can't devote every waking minute to it. I would really prefer not to try and make $ at it unless it was truly a full-time job. I'm not sure if any free forum hosts allow ads that aren't through them, so I am not sure how possible it would be to take digi ads.
I'm open to thoughts and suggestions, but don't necessarily want to hijack HOF's blog. Maybe I'll set up an email addy or a blog for suggestions if there's really some interest. I am not a designer, not on cts and really have never had an interest in that, I'm not a secretly paid promoter or anything like that. I'm just an 'everday' scrapper who has been growing more and more dissatisfied with community options for regular scrappers. I suspect I'm not the only one and I'm willing to give this a try.
^^^
oops, my first line should say I AGREE about the dark side. It's got a weird vibe-very reminiscent of the digital disturbia that popped up trying to pose as DD in its last days.
It is so sad that no one can voice their "positive" opinion about something new without being accused of being the owner or a 'henchperson'. I'm neither and have posted links on digigoss as well as the obits. The obits were a graveyard. Nothing was happening there. Digi goss is closing. SO? I posted a link? Big deal? Dont you think it would be better if everyone was in ONE place? sheesh.
I dont own the blog, I dont know the owners, AT ALL, but I do think that what they are doing is coming from a decent place. How many of us are sick of these holier-than-thou designers who smack pirates and then turn out to be one? I know I am.
*sigh* nevermind. Blogs are for opinions and I guess yours are the only ones that matter right?
People are curious by nature. They'll go there to visit and form their own opinion. No one is forcing anyone to go there, I simply suggested it on two different dying blogs. SUE ME.
Well, we run a smack blog, We are not running a popularity contest.
And like us or love us, people still come, they still post, they still view our pages.
The only reason we have a traffic tracker was because of the Lippy Skippy Camp. And they were the ones we called out. Not your everyday blogger poster's.
So if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.
But unlike scrap obit. and most other scrap blogs, we are not focused on name dropping and assumptions. We want the PROOF. The screen shots. The emails. The links. We are not trying to ruin people's design name JUST because some OTHER designer has a bone up their ass over them.
Does that make us bad? To some 2 faced designers who reside in DST, maybe.
But to the digital scrap customers and other ladies of this community, no. We show them proof and then allow them to make their own opinion's about them. Not give them assumption's and hide behind anonymous.
Just so everyone knows, Patricia and I have no reason to post anonymously. Our names are posted and our email addresses are made readily available for everyone to use should they need to contact us. We do realize there are MANY shady people out here on the internet but with us - what you see is what you get. Whether or not you choose to believe that is a YOU issue, not an "us" issue.
To the blog owner, Congratulations on your new blog. We hope it is a successful one.
10:20 Just wanted to say thanks for your support. We're glad you believe what we're doing is positive and we hope to continue to grow the positivity.
I defintely want to see a place where either the promoting and pimping is heavily restricted, or a site that allows some promoting on most forums, but reserves one spot that is designer/ct free.
I would like to see separate spaces/forums for different softwares-DST really, really seems to cater only to PS products.
If there's a 'chatter' forum, I'd like to see it split up into SBR and NSBR
I'd like a forum that displays a user's IP with each post. In past forums that I belonged to, it really seemed to help with people signing up for multiple identities just to cause trouble/stir the pot.
I'm leaning towards no blinkies in sigs--text links only. Not totally sure about that though-maybe just a small # allowed.
I want any rules that are enacted to be enforced consistently. There are so many 'certain people' at DST who get away with almost anything they want-that's just not ok.
Possibly a place to discuss customer service issues (good or bad) without getting pounced upon (and that includes the snarky pounces thinly disguised with smilies)
I'm not sure I'd belong to a forum where my IP would be on every post. Too many people get bugs up their butts and look up the real information associated with it. It's a privacy issue. And you know the hags will sign up for a new forum too even if they do it with an alias.
I would LOVE a place where customer service issues could be discussed openly and name names. None of this "I e-mailed them 3x and didn't get a response...." But we never get a freakin name! I don't want to shop at stores like that, and I'm sure many others don't. Let's make them accountable.
By the same token, I'd love to be able to say "I got great customer service from......" without the major ass kissing fest that goes on at DST if you say something like that.
I'd also love an area where you can find out the real deal about CTs before you apply for their teams. A place where current or former members can post what the designers are really like to work with.
ok, I'm the tinkering around poster and I've made this googleID so that I could start a blog for suggestions if there's really some ongoing interest in this. But to be perfectly clear, this would NOT be a smack or gossip blog-just an ideas and suggestions thing. I do not want to 'compete' with HOF in any way. Also for clarification, I am in NO WAY affiliated with the dark side blog or its owner/owners and I am not the 'building our new community' person either. I am just a digi scrapper who wants an alternative to the advertising-overloaded sites that are presently available to digital scrappers.
I am not doing this for fame or fortune or to compete with DST or any other digital 'community.' I have no interest in being any kind of "#1", or a central 'hub' or how many hits the place gets. I just want a scrapping home where I feel comfortable to socialize and say what's really on my mind. But I also don't want it to turn into a crazy smackfest type of place.
I know that the kind of place I envision will be difficult to create, so that's why I want lots of suggestions and input.
For those keeping score now, it seems there are two new communities being kicked around. "Building our New Community" - associated with the Pirates at the Darkside, and "Ordinary" also kicking around starting a forum.
Hey thanks, I don't know where this will go, but I was kind of sad to see that DigiGoss was closing, because I enjoyed the conversation there, and I wish the Obits blog owner would give some topics or at least new space...my plan is to post some topics for conversation a couple times a week, and leave the pirate junk on the other blogs. Honestly, the pirate trash talking makes my head hurt.
I am not competing with anyone, I think if you read these blogs, people tend to hop around to all of them, and will post on whichever one has a topic of interest. I don't really have a niche or agenda, just wanted to provide an alternative for some banter outside of the Pirate theme.
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To the blog owner, Congratulations on your new blog. We hope it is a successful one.
Hey Ordinary - Just a suggestion, instead of promoting your forum as "anti-pimping" change your point of view to something positive. Promote challenges, new techniques, challenge people to "scrap outside of the box", No blinkies etc. Promote fun activities that encourage participation that challenges, but the focus is not solely for promotion of a designer or specific product. Example: Do an acrylic challenge, they can use freebies, or any designer. or a blended photo or extraction, and give people some links to some good tutorials to help them along. Encourage member to ask \ and answer questions.
Hi HOF, just wanted to let you know that my other post was not at all intended to say or imply that you had an agenda or were competing.
I'll just say that any feelings I got about agendas or competition were definitely not coming from you. I am just not into trying to compete in any way online, especially with regards to scrapping.
One of the things that bugs me the most about DST is the atmosphere of 'star' or elite or #1 mentality. So many of the really active posters just seem to be all about competitive scrapping. Being on as many CTs as possible, making gallery standouts, being on 'elite' or 'top tier' CTs, and on and on.
really good suggestions, 7:59-thanks! I do want to remain as positive as possible, just without the extreme sunshine and roses element. I want people to be comfortable giving honest thoughts, opinions, etc. To quote one of my favorite non-scrapping bloggers, I just wanna keep it real!
Why have another community? Why not go back to Shop forums like it once was? DST & MSA are a popularity contest. I find smaller store forums more peaceful & friendly. Places where they have challenges, tutorials, and just all around good time. What smaller forums do you enjoy? I like SSD, SOTB, SBB.
No worries, Ordinary, like I said if there is something of interest, people will participate, be it a blog or a new forum. If not, makes no difference to me. I don't have the time, energy, interest, or skill to start a forum, but I will check it out to see if I like it, feel free to post your link here when you get up and running.
No one place is a perfect fit for everybody, and I like variety and alternatives. I didn't start this post to compete with Darkside, it was just some conversation that started in the first post and I thought I would start a thread separate for the conversation. No harm intended.
Heck if DST went away, I would have to find a new place for blog material! I do have some major pet peeves about the "Digi Community", but I don't want to use them all up in the first week.
Store forums are attached to a store, if I want to do a challenge there, I feel obligated to use product available at that store.
If I am looking for XYZ and ABC and post an ISO, I would like suggestions from others outside of that specific store. But I want the suggestions to apply to what I am looking for.
I would also like to see a "constructive criticism, or how can I improve my layout? forum.
I love seeing layouts that are "non kid" - Layouts about rough times, all journaling no pictures, "edgy topics" etc. I am inspired by those, because they are topics so different than what I do.
7:06 am - get your facts straight. The Darkside EXPOSES pirates they ARENT pirates. Not sure what would make you post something so hateful and try to defer others from going there to offer their input by posting such lies. Maybe you have your own agenda.
"Ordinary", I hope you have some sort of a business background, as well as knowledge about different software programs, because it's going to take a lot more than "tinkering" to run a full-blown community. A full blown community includes a LOT more than just a neatly organized forum.
Just for clarifications sake, no i'm not the owner, no they're not my "friends". Do I like the blog? Yes. At least the blog owners interact with the majority of the posters there and since and not just let people post whatever they want without proof. They call people on their b.s. posts. I'm a designer that owns a store, i'd like to know which designers are the ones to avoid.
Patty and Sasha were asked directly if they were pirates, they did not deny. If they did deny that fact, they themselves would be the hypocrites. I have drawn my own conclusion about the blog owners there. Everybody is free to read what was written by the owners when the blog started...go back and read it again, and let everybody form their own opinion.
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The Darkside EXPOSES pirates they ARENT pirates. Not sure what would make you post something so hateful
10:03
Sasha SmartyPants said...
My perspective or both mine and patricias?
I can tell you they are the same.
We're tired of the hypocrisy in the digi-scrapping world. We dont "hate" anyone and for the most part, we are very much live and let live type of people.
We just cant stomach those who attack others for doing the same thing THEY do.
Do we care if people pirate? No because it happens - even to us.
Are we designers? Yes
Do we pirate? We dont make it our mission to go out there and "get in" with piracy groups - but if something comes across my email - yes - we'll "snoogie" it. LOL
Are we on a witch hunt? Well I guess that's a matter of opinion. Allow me to give you an example.
Lets say "a" is a designer and an undercover pirate but makes it known in many venues that she hates pirates. "a" found out that "b" who is also a designer and undercover pirate, is sharing stuff (just like "a" does). Then turns around and outs "b" to the scrapbooking community to be harrassed and made to look like an outcast. Then someone - who we'll call "c" thought it was wrong of "a" to spank "b" when "a" was doing the EXACT same thing - sends US all the information. Let's also keep in mind "a" does it to SEVERAL people and not just "b"...so in essence it's okay for HER to do it -just not anyone else.
Wouldnt that irk you? It irks us.
If my example was a little hard to follow I apologize (not saying anyone is thick headed. Hypotheticals tend to be a bit maddening).
Does that help to give you a little more information on our perspective?
Again we dont "hate" anyone....we hate hypocrisy and wish these people would own up to their own bullshit.
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How many of you can say something came through your email and you didnt snag it? Guess that makes you ALL pirates then. At least she was honest enough to say that she would.
In the beginning they didnt confirm nor did they deny. YOU jumped to your own conclusion.
I think that is what the poster above said, go back and re-read and form your own opinion. I can say yeah I would take something that was shared with me in email, but that doesn't happen. The digi "friends" I email with don't trade. I assume those that have links "fall" into their mailbox, must actively participate in that type trading.
Guilty by association ? (rolling my eyes).
I'm sure all your friends are perfect. Your family members are perfect too right? You're SURROUNDED with perfection arent ya?
Pfffff.....whatever.
ok, I am going to have to agree with 9:26, the Darkside vibe is very weird. Someone is cutting and pasting the forum suggestions posted here, over there too. Why do that? Like HOF said, people will post where they feel comfortable. Obviously some don't feel it at the Darkside. I wonder if they will copy this over there too? Probably not.
people can do what they want - if you have such an issue with your suggestions not being shared over there or anywhere else then ask the blog owner to make the blog private.
please dont start a whining fest. it looks like both blogs are working towards positivity and you're all making it about your opinons. guess what? it's not ABOUT YOU.
get over yourselves.
amen ta that sister!
on the topic:
I think DST started out with the best intention of being an alternative to 2peas, and let everyone be able to speak openly about product...I don't think Shannon expected the growth, and didn't plan for it. She has also harbored the pimping, and the result is what everyone is tired of. A new forum if it takes off will have the same growing pains, unless there is a kind soul out there wanting to fund this if it grows. Free forums can't support the volume, especially if there is a gallery attached. If the goal of either of the new forums is to be small and cozy, that is fine, they will need to figure out how to keep it that way.
I belong to a couple of targeted message boards that are not related to digiscrapping. For a yearly donation, members get access to the members only boards. Possibly a way to generate income to support the board. The member only board would need to be worthy though to generate subscriptions. Just an idea.
How many of you can say something came through your email and you didnt snag it? Guess that makes you ALL pirates then. At least she was honest enough to say that she would.
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Me. Don't pirate. Don't snag. Don't share. Not even MP3s.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we do exist. Some of us can separate right from wrong without rationalizing and hold ourselves to that standard.
I set up a blog for feedback on creating a new community. Mainly, I wanted to be able to create polls, so here's the link:
http://ordinaryscrapper.blogspot.com/
Me. Don't pirate. Don't snag. Don't share. Not even MP3s.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we do exist. Some of us can separate right from wrong without rationalizing and hold ourselves to that standard.
June 19, 2008 3:52 PM
_____________________
word
GOOD LORD WILL YOU PEOPLE GET OVER YOURSELVES ALREADY?
The Darkside owners are loser pirates. Guess what? I've never 'snagged' anything that comes across my email because nothing has ever come across my email - cause I don't hang with pirates and other low-lifes. I associate with members of the digiscrapping community that abide by the designer's TOU. It would be VERY Taboo among my scrapping friends to share or pirate. I think that statement about 'snagging' what comes across email says it ALL about the darkside owners and the people that hang out there. And they don't even have a clue that not everyone is 'like' them!
One of the things that bugs me the most about DST is the atmosphere of 'star' or elite or #1 mentality. So many of the really active posters just seem to be all about competitive scrapping. Being on as many CTs as possible, making gallery standouts, being on 'elite' or 'top tier' CTs, and on and on.
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Dear Ordinary - I TOTALLY agree with this. I feel exactly the same way! So the things I would want in a community are the things that would promote the OPPOSITE of this. Some thoughts:
How about the whole objective of the site is that it is totally INCLUSIVE. Meaning that the objective is that no one ever feels left out. To make that happen, instead of saying 'no pimping', some of the cultural norms could be:
-All RAKS handled privately so that no one feels bad that they didn't get 'RAKED'
-No FAN blinkies because that could make designers feel left out
-No threads about 'Who's your Favorite Scrapper' or 'Who's your favorite Designer' Cause only the same old people get named
-No Gallery Standouts thread - but maybe an alternative thread to highlight great layouts that were overlooked. The requirement could be that it has to have fewer than 'X' comments to be posted. It could be called something like: 'No Layout Left Behind' (that's an old theme from SBB long ago).
-Not sure whether I would want a praise game or not. The thing that's nice is that it encourages people to spend time in the gallery to leave comments. The only problem is that only people who play the game GET any comments. Maybe there's a new kind of praise game that no one has thought of...
-How about something like this: A "Reciprocal Comment Game" each day. Each day - a thread is started and everyone that posts a link in that thread that day agrees to give reciprocal comments to everyone that leaves them a comment on it. That would be a really cool way to encourage involvement and it would be totally optional - so people that don't want to do it don't have to play. The cool thing about it would be that if you go in there and leave 3 comments, then you'll get 3 comments. If you leave 40 comments you'll get 40 comments. It could be sort of cool and different-and you wouldn't have people upset because they left an inordinate amount of comments and only got a few themselves. Just an idea.
-Another thing I would love - but it is probably too difficult- would be a gallery where people could post their layouts anonymously. That would be for people who truly want constructive comments or feedback without popularity playing into it.
Just some ideas to consider...
One more idea: How about allowing ISO threads and promotion threads, but contain them to separate sub forums. You could have the following:
ISO Forum: For all threads looking for a certain type of product.
Promotion Forum: A sub-forum where ANYONE - not just Designers or CT members can talk about things they like.
The advantages:
-People don't like to have too many rules. And people don't like it when you can't talk about products and stores which is why everyone left 2Peas.
-By putting ALL promotion in a separate forum, its up to the individual whether they want to see it or not.
-This puts EVERYONE on equal footing - all designers, all CT members and individuals can promote in the one forum to their hearts content.
-ONE important thing though - keep it sorted by DATE/Time and don't let it get 'bumped' - or else everyone will send their teams in to unfairly keep certain threads bumped to the top.
I think DST started out with the best intention of being an alternative to 2peas, and let everyone be able to speak openly about product...I don't think Shannon expected the growth, and didn't plan for it. She has also harbored the pimping, and the result is what everyone is tired of. A new forum if it takes off will have the same growing pains, unless there is a kind soul out there wanting to fund this if it grows. Free forums can't support the volume, especially if there is a gallery attached. If the goal of either of the new forums is to be small and cozy, that is fine, they will need to figure out how to keep it that way.
June 19, 2008 12:44 PM
ITA!! While I think DST was started with good intentions, it has morphed into something that has become out of control. SPOT ON with harboring the pimping.
I still believe that people need to be able to freely and honestly discuss any products or stores. That's why I'm not really satisfied with store forums. BUT there's a difference between honest product chit chat and the pimping/promoting a la DST. So many sites, designers, promoters have no scruples or shame when it comes to trying to disguise their pimping as just chatting. Or maybe they aren't trying to disguise it. (shrug)
Also agree about the growth issues. I'm looking for an alternative to DST for honest chat, discussions but I'm not necessarily looking for the alternative to try and be an all-inclusive 'hub' like DST. I'm good with chatter-SBR, NSBR, and maybe some other things like challenges ,etc. as the site finds its way.
Not interested in another gallery unless it's somehow anon. or the comments are not publically visible. I really think there are more than enough open or fairly open galleries already. Once you've found a gallery you like and uploaded a LO, you can post a link to your LO from anywhere, ya know?
Frankly, I loathe DST as a spot to try and chat, socialize, etc. but it has its limited uses for me right now with regards to finding sales, etc.
It does suck as a place to find honest feedback and help with improving your scrapping skills, etc. Mainly I think because of the competitive atmosphere and 'scrapping star' mentality.
So yeah, I'm very interested in a new community that is customer focused and friendly. I am sick to death of CTs, designers, and 'promoters' in my virtual face.
Digi community new site suggestions:
1- make it a requirement that if someone hosts a challenge that they comment on ALL LOs that participate in their challenge. I am so tired of having the challenge hostess skip over my LO and comment on the one next to mine. It looks so tacky of them to play favorites like that. And note to challenge hostesses: If you can't take the time to comment on 10-15 LOs loaded over a week, and think no one notices when you skip over their LO, you are wrong. It pisses me off that I take the time to do your stinkin' challenge and you can't take the time to acknowledge I did it. Let someone kinder than you host the challenge if you're not willing to treat everyone fairly.
2- no blinkies! makes the page load slower, and the practice has turned into a high schoolish popularity contest
3- have a small group that can meet and chat and critique each other's LOs. I like the idea of being able to post a LO that's a work-in-progress, get feedback, and then delete it. But I don't want the LO seen in the general gallery, I want something more private.
4- NO RAK's. If a designer wants to give away her stuff, fine, it's her call- but don't rub my nose in it that I'm not a big Super star scrapper and don't warrant a freebie in your eyes. It just ticks me off and reminds me I'm not in the DST "magic circle."
I've noticed that only 15 or so have voted on the Ordinary Scrapper blog.
I really thought there would be more voters. Any thoughts as to why the low turnout?
^^^
I thought the same thing about all the blogs this weekend-very quiet. Looks like the piracy smack is winding down *fingers crossed* Digi goss has moderation on, and the obits are all but abandoned. Even this Mo Jackson topic didn't get many replies.
Maybe everything's just really slow b/c it's summertime. School's out, SAHMs have the kids more during the day, and everyone is getting busy outside and with vacations, etc. Even DST is slower during the summer.
*shrug* that's my best guess
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